tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10928393.post8564011754977030933..comments2023-12-29T10:13:54.118-07:00Comments on <center>Walled-In Pond</center>: "It's The Curriculum Stupid!": Why The "Race-To-The-Top" Won't Be Won, or Even Very Much Run, Under "the Dal-Obama"Woody (Tokin Librul/Rogue Scholar/ Helluvafella!)http://www.blogger.com/profile/09205896988142798901noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10928393.post-9414293321526556682009-11-10T13:41:57.490-07:002009-11-10T13:41:57.490-07:00Public schools and private schools are for the mos...Public schools and private schools are for the most part virtually indistinguishable, except for the races of their inhabitants.<br /><br />Students in these schools are assumed to have deficits that need to be fostered and approved. Their task is to make themselves acceptable to the owners, and school will help do that, for the select...<br /><br />The schools of the elites, the wealthy, the powerful are different. In those institutions, students are not there to be fixed but to be finished...Woody (Tokin Librul/Rogue Scholar/ Helluvafella!)https://www.blogger.com/profile/09205896988142798901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10928393.post-78907681136375213082009-11-08T20:15:38.473-07:002009-11-08T20:15:38.473-07:00Amen, Amen, Amen to that.Amen, Amen, Amen to that.P M Prescotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12973205373056561583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10928393.post-39839321373221743642009-11-08T13:12:23.349-07:002009-11-08T13:12:23.349-07:00Ah, there we go with that old saw about "priv...Ah, there we go with that old saw about "private schools have better outcomes". Do they? Well, the research says... erm... NO. If you adjust by socioeconomic class of the students and educational level of the parents, private schools and public schools perform roughly equivalently, research shows. <br /><br />This matches my experience with suburban public schools populated with upper-middle-class kids vs. private schools... the suburban public schools had larger class sizes but also many more experienced teachers and much more resources in terms of instructional materials and other such supporting infrastructure, while private school teachers were generally less experienced (mostly there because they were working on certification, and leaving for the better-paying public schools as soon as they got their certification) and the schools themselves had far fewer resources but class sizes were smaller and there were fewer discipline problems. In the end it all averaged out. <br /><br />There are so many myths about American education that simply don't bear out when you look at the actual data. But hey, data isn't sexy, while sound bites are... siggggh!<br /><br />BTW, our current system of education isn't modeled after anything, it has simply evolved over the years to fit the realities of available resources and the nature of the incoming students. Parallel evolution is why the school experience in the US, Japan, China, Germany, Russia, etc. all are immediately recognizable as schools where teaching and learning are happening, most of these educational systems grew up in isolation without much contact with other educational systems outside their homeland, yet the conditions were the same -- 30 kids per adult, limited space in schoolhouses, etc. -- and they evolved in pretty much the same direction, albeit with individual cultural twists to confuse direct comparisons. Education is an incredibly conservative institution (conservative in the old sense of the word, as in, resistant to change) that slowly evolves (very slowly) to fit existing conditions, a process which does not lend itself to being "modeled" after anything in particular. <br /><br />- Badtux the Former Teacher PenguinBadTuxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01345749557330760251noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10928393.post-26344937287868902892009-11-08T12:41:15.283-07:002009-11-08T12:41:15.283-07:00oops - modeled.oops - modeled.PENolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17920921974302444898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10928393.post-24082845448838337702009-11-08T12:39:45.684-07:002009-11-08T12:39:45.684-07:00The original progressive educators did not say tha...The original progressive educators did not say that there should be no direct instruction. Direct instruction is often necessary. Dewey emphasizes in Experience and Education that the reason progressive education was getting fucked up is that too many teachers were relying on spontaneity for developing curriculum. A well planned, constructivist curriculum will lead to academic achievement with typically developing children and many with developmental differences.<br /><br />When you're looking at 30 kids, one teacher and the impossible task of adequately addressing the needs of the students, teachers do not have what they need. Private schools tend to have smaller classes which means better outcomes for students whether the school is traditional, progressive or a mixture of both (my personal preference).<br /><br />Our contemporary system of public education was modelled after the assembly lines of Henry Ford with the goal of training workers and enculturating immigrants. It must have seemed like a good idea at the time, and in many ways it has effectively turned out a shit load of tea bagging types who can't see the connection between insurance companies and the trouble with health care.PENolanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17920921974302444898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10928393.post-34787168948298873812009-11-05T16:19:28.128-07:002009-11-05T16:19:28.128-07:00A few comments here:
1) The states where teacher ...A few comments here:<br /><br />1) The states where teacher unions are strongest -- and where teachers have the most power in the classroom -- are the states that have the best results on all measures of education. Coincidence? I don't think so.<br /><br />2) Private schools are no different from public schools insofar as teaching methods, materials, etc. are concerned. There is no gummint "conspiracy" to turn our kiddies into passive consumers. What there is, is a simple management problem: how to get kids to learn stuff when you got one teacher and 30 kids. The notion of turning the little savages loose to learn shit on their own doesn't work, regardless of what the utopian types think. We have numbers on that one, sorry, and they're all pretty much the same -- the only thing that gets predictable and consistent results is direct instruction. Direct instruction might not be pretty or fancy or anything like that, but DI works, and is the de facto standard method of teaching in today's schools for a reason -- because we already tried all that utopian bullshit, and <i>it didn't work</i>. Period. Not to mention that parents complain angrily whenever teachers try to do something new and different -- "the old way of teaching was good 'nuff when I was a kid, it's good enough now!", usually spurted by some dude with a mullet chewing tobacco who took time off from his job at the chicken rendering factory to come to the school -- but that's a different issue. <br /><br />- Badtux the Former Teacher PenguinBadTuxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01345749557330760251noreply@blogger.com